Discussion: ASP.NET Core 3.0 will only run on .NET Core

[natemcmaster]

This is a discussion item for aspnet/Announcements#324.

[poke]

I think this makes a lot of sense in the overall picture now. Both .NET Core and ASP.NET Core have been around for long enough by now that people already had or still have the chance to switch to it, without causing huge issues (compared to when the support was first dropped in the past with 2.0).

However, I am sad about the implications though for certain components of ASP.NET Core that can currently exist as separate dependencies. Because this will probably mean that the individual components will drop netstandard support, requiring netcoreapp3.0 instead; and especially with #3756 those components would be unusable outside of an ASP.NET Core context.

For example, projects like RazorLight will then effectively be forced to drop .NET Framework and more importantly .NET Standard support in general.

[mythz]

This is going to leave a lot of people who've sold moving to the new ASP.NET Core programming model in their organization to stay on a supported and actively developed platform out in the cold on an unsupported platform in less than 3 years (.NET Core 2.1 LTS).

I'm not sure what analytics you've used to justify this move but for Running ServiceStack ASP.NET Core Apps on the .NET Framework we're seeing that the most popular web-corefx template for running ASP.NET Core project on the .NET Framework is over 1/3 (33.8%) share then the same empty web template which is our most popular project template for running on .NET Core.

IMO 3 years is not enough time to abandon Customers that have started to or have made move to the new ASP.NET programming model (to escape the stagnated ASP.NET Framework platform) only to find out now that the platform that they've sold to their organization to move to has been abandoned.

For whatever reason there are Customers who cannot move to .NET Core due to relying on .NET Framework only dependencies, if MS doesn't want to maintain support for .NET Framework in ASP.NET Core 3.0 in future IMO you should extend the support for ASP.NET Core 2.1 on .NET Framework to an extended period like 7 years. Migrations of existing production systems can take years, since starting .NET Core it's clear the ASP.NET Framework has been left to stagnate with the official stance being that ASP.NET Core is the future programming model for .NET, now the same Customers will soon start finding out that the new programming model that they've move/moving to will be unsupported in a few years. The best way to accommodate these existing .NET Customers is to support .NET 2.1 for an additional LTS period, for security patches at least (ideally for resolving bugs as well).

[kevinchalet]

"killing .NET Framework", episode 2: same story, same characters 🤣

Sadly, this just highlights one thing: you completely failed to make .NET Standard the front car of the .NET ecosystem. It doesn't move as fast as it should and is nothing more than a lowest common denominator that is always updated at the very last moment, when all platforms include (or are about to include) the new APIs.

Perhaps that's just me, but I've never understood why it didn't move as fast as netcoreapp (which is the first to get the new APIs, by definition).

You're a NuGet package author and want them to use the latest stuff? Target the most recent netstandard version: sure, initially, only netcoreapp-based applications will be able to use them, but eventually other platforms - like Xamarin, Mono or .NET Framework - will catch up and folks will be able to use your packages without requiring you to change anything. That's how things should work.

Of course, it may take a while for non-.NET Core platforms like .NET Framework to catch up as the releases are rarer and the stability bar much higher, but even if it takes 6, 12 or even 18 months, I don't think it's a problem, because that's what people want when using .NET Framework: a stable framework, not a fast moving target.

IMHO, it would be a much better approach to make ASP.NET Core 3.0 target a new netstandard TFM exposing all the .NET Core APIs you need. Once you're sure the new APIs are stable enough, backport them to the .NET Framework so that it is compatible with the latest standard.

I'm sure people would prefer having to wait a few months before being able to move their .NET Framework app to the latest ASP.NET Core version rather than being blocked forever on an old version with a super short 3-year support.

Do what you promised: make .NET Framework a stable framework that evolves slower instead of a dead end for the ones who trusted you when migrating to ASP.NET Core.

[John0King]

I don't like this. At the beginning of .net core , Microsoft wasn't chooce mono or .net framework as a cross platform, and u said there are multiple .net runtime there so u design the .netstandard , now there'r still many nuget package that do not support .net core (mean reason) .Many developer will leave behide in the old asp.net core programming model if asp.net core only run on .net core. then .net standard will exist in name only (at least for asp.net core, people start build netcoreapp only packages ) .
Maybe oneday, .net core can replace .net framework on window, but what about mono , and other platform rely on mono (xamarin,unity3d) .
and another reason for sometime I prefer .net framework is that .net core share framework is really huge, how big is your C:/program file/dotnet folder if you upgrade your app from .net core 2.0 to latest .net core 2.1 ? There GBs file in my folder , and it grows when I update .net core runtime. but .net framework will just replace the old version.

[mythz]

Do what you promised: make .NET Framework a stable framework that evolves slower instead of a dead end for the ones who trusted you when migrating to ASP.NET Core.

FWIW this would be the optimal strategy, my suggestion of extending the LTS is the minimum bar to give more time to existing Customers that have been aggressively marketed to migrate to ASP.NET Core who have now been left abandoned on a future unsupported platform with this announcement.

[iJzFan]

So .net standard is a joke? Hope mono team will fork aspnetcore repos and rename to aspnetmono,otherwise I may leave .net stack.😔

[Sebazzz]

I guess that this means that at my work we will never use ASP.NET Core. We will stay at ASP.NET forever never mind porting an app to Core because that would now involve even more changes.

[gulbanana]

Sure, if your goal is to have no changes then you can keep doing the same thing forever. Where I work, we began using ASP.NET Core a couple of years ago, initially running on .NET Framework. Over time, as the .NET Core platform matured and gained features, we switched our projects to netcoreapp. One or two older projects are still using ASP.NET, and we have no plans to rewrite those - it’s working code. But for the newer stuff we’re looking forward to features like Span.

Change can be put off but it isn’t something you can or should avoid forever - technology is change and a developer’s job will always require learning new things. If you’re using ASP.NET Core on .NET Framework today, it’s unlikely to take three years of work to move it to .NET Core.